S3 E2: The differences & similarities in training dogs and horses with Hannah Branigan
I am ridiculously excited to have Hannah Branigan as our guest on An Equine Conversation this episode.
If you don’t know Hannah’s work, you should make a point of getting to know it. Hannah’s education programs and content in the animal training space with a focus on dogs is next level excellent. Her podcast, Drinking from the Toilet that I’ve mentioned a couple of times in the past on An Equine Conversation and have recommended to many people, is one of my favourites for insightful training information, looking at all the shades of grey in the training space and the best part is that it’s presented in a really authentic way. While Drinking from the Toilet has a dog focus, so much of the conversation directly relates to training horses & other species.
For a while now, I’ve wanted to do an episode on An Equine Conversation about the differences & similarities between training dogs and horses. I know the vast majority of horse people also have dogs. And I see regularly a really fascinating thing happen where people will train their dog with positive reinforcement, yet they don’t apply the same training approach with their horses. There seems to be a long-held belief in a large part of the horse-world that we can’t train horses with positive reinforcement, we can’t train them using food. That using food would be bribing them, will make them muggy, yet we’re often comfortable to train our dogs using food. FYI This isn’t the case – we can train horses using positive reinforcement and it’s super effective & people around the world are doing it with awesome success.
I wanted to unpack the differences but also the similarities between training dogs and horses. I’m a huge fan of Hannah’s and I know that Hannah is not only amazingly awesome in her work with dogs, she also has horses. I reckoned Hannah might be the perfect person to unpack this conversation with me.
I was beyond delighted when Hannah agreed to come and chat with us & I managed to restrain myself from fan-girling at her too much. We had a super interesting conversation where Hannah shared some of her lesser known story with horses.
It won’t surprise anyone who knows Hannah’s work to know that we got into some training weeds and a more in-depth but totally awesome conversation than maybe I had planned. …. A conversation which I’m so excited to share with you. Enjoy!
PS. We did have some technical issues with this recording. Thanks to Hannah for bearing with as we worked through them at the time and thanks to Matthew Bliss for working as much magic as possible to improve the sound quality.
Hannah Branigan:
Hannah Branigan, the author of Awesome Obedience, is a self-proclaimed training nerd. With the belief that everyone (dogs and humans alike) learn best in an environment free of criticism, Hannah breaks down complex skills into bite-sized, accessible pieces, and develops practical techniques that leave her students with a sense of achievement and success.
She is on a mission to make training fun and enjoyable for dogs and their handlers, which means optimizing positive reinforcement techniques across species. She is fascinated by behavior and learning, and passionate about bringing innovative, science-based solutions to the dog/human learning space.
Hannah has a background in both human sports and biology. Now she applies that knowledge and experience to the world of animal training and canine competitive sports. She enjoys training and competing with her own dogs in a variety of sports. Her competition obedience DVDs, Obedience FUNdamentals and Beyond FUNdamentals, have received rave reviews from trainers all over the world, and her students have earned advanced titles and in multiple countries.
Hannah is the host of the popular dog training podcast, Drinking from the Toilet, which focuses on the (often inconvenient) intersection between positive reinforcement philosophy and reality. Her mentorship program, Zero to CD, gives trainers a complete, step-by-step blueprint for earning their first level obedience title with curated support along the way.
In this episode we discuss:
1:31 - episode introduction
4:32 - introducing Hannah Branigan
6:20 - Hannah’s background with horses
10:28 - where did the dogs come into the story
14:32 - shifting career trajectory
15:16 - the current animal family
15:45 - the weird thing that is dog-owners seeming to know how to train by osmosis
16:46 - the dog chicken and horse egg - which comes first
17:51 - how we categorise horses through a different lens to dogs
19:41 - the biggest difference between the two species
24:02 - other differences: the rhythm of movement horses need versus dogs
26:51 - re-setting a dog in training versus a horse & different work arounds
30:02 - different ethology in how dogs & horses consume food (and humans too) & implications for training
36:42 - impact of the environment on our animals & our training
44:06 - switching from training horses with more conventional, pressure/release methods to R+
53:13 - onto the similarities between training dogs & horses using R+: the left and the right-hand sides
54:50 - discomfort of humans around working with reinforcers, the importance of training reinforcement procedures & predictability & certainty, and impact of balance on how we feed
1:02:46 - things taught the same way
1:09:35 - horses occupying a unique niche in the human mind & the impact of equestrian art on what we perceive as beautiful
1:13:32 - dogs & horses as inhibited species - process of domestication impacts
1:16:13 - top training tips: reinforcement drives behaviour so train reinforcement behaviours first & foremost
1:17:43 - next top tip: don’t think too hard on the ‘mistakes’ - get to reinforceable moments ASAP
1:19:17 - the little things: example of impact of reinforcement delivery
1:22:00 - the basement behaviours even before the reinforcement delivery & the impact of early learning history
1:24:43 - what’s coming up at Abbey’s Run Equestrian
1:27:14 - podcast wrap-up & what’s on next episode
Links from Hannah:
Hannah's online program, Zero to CD
Hannah's book: Awesome Obedience
And also: Awesome Obedience: The Field Guide
Our links mentioned this episode:
From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the future
Book a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)
Abbey's Run Equestrian website
Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook
Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm